95. Parent Panel: How to Prioritize Rest While Raising Kids

Episode Transcript

Verbs: Welcome to another episode of Focus on This, the most productive podcast on the Internet, so you can banish distractions, get the right stuff done, and finally start loving Mondays. I’m Verbs, here with Courtney Baker, Blake Stratton, and two very, very special guests. Happy Monday to you guys.

Courtney: Hey, Happy Monday.

Blake: Happy Monday indeed. Don’t leave us in suspense. We have some more people in our little squares here, as we’re still doing over-the-Internet recording. So, Courtney, who’s that handsome gent next to you? Who is that guy?

Courtney: Yeah. My husband Chase is here with us today. I guess, Chase, you’ve never been on the podcast before.

Chase: Never. First time.

Courtney: Do you want to tell people a little bit about what you do?

Chase: Yeah. It is an honor. This is the first time I’ve been invited to your podcast.

Verbs: Wait. I feel like that was a dig right there. “This is the first time I’ve been invited.”

Courtney: Listen. He also has a podcast, and I’ve never been on his podcast, so, you know, we’re even.

Verbs: Touché. Touché.

Chase: That’s true. I actually work at Rolling Hills Community Church as a family pastor, so I oversee preschool through high school. I’ve been a pastor for almost 18 years.

Blake: And, Verbs, seated next to you is a recurring guest, I guess we could call it at this point.

Verbs: It’s official.

Blake: A recurring guest on the show.

Verbs: Yes. Once again I’m joined here today by my wife Verna. Yeah, this is your second time being a reoccurring guest on the show.

Verna: Hi, everyone.

Verbs: She’s an old pro.

Blake: Back by popular demand. The real reason y’all are here is because this month, our theme is rejuvenation, and who better to talk about rejuvenation than parents…parents of children, specifically.

Verbs: Those who seek it the most. Yes.

Blake: And in Chase and Courtney’s case, also a dog. Do you have pets, Verbs and Verna?

Verbs: We do not have pets.

Courtney: That’s because they’re smart people.

Verbs: I feel like everybody with pets has that kind of statement, Courtney, so we’re taking their advice for now. We do have a bird feeder in the backyard, though. I don’t know if that counts.

Courtney: That is a brilliant solution. Everybody, buy a bird feeder. That’s great. No. We love our dog.

Blake: Is that similar to your parenting style? It’s like, “Listen. Here’s a big thing of food in the center of the living room. If you need something, just go there.”

Verbs: Almost. Once they’re able to get their own breakfast, pour their own cereal, you’re pretty much heading in that direction.

Blake: Awesome. Well, what we realize is a lot of you listening would love to hear the top tips for rejuvenation, but one of the most common, it seems like, could be obstacles to your routines or your own ability to get out ahead of being tired or being overwhelmed is just your responsibility as parents, because it is a full-time, never-ending job.

My wife and I were on the couch this weekend. We were just chatting. It’s kind of like getting on a train. You weren’t on a train. Then you get onto a train, and it’s not that you get off the train. You just live on a train now. It just keeps going and barrels down, and you’re just there. You’re like, “Oh, I’m a person on a train at this point.” I don’t know if that analogy… Maybe that just makes sense to me. You guys are looking at me like, “A train?”

It just never stops. Right? Your role, your responsibility as parents never stops, yet we know that rest is really important. So, we thought, let’s bring on these amazing teammates of yours to talk about how you have learned to incorporate rest, to develop strategies that maybe you would want to share with the parents listening here on Focus on This. So, welcome. I’m excited to have you.

Courtney: Can I just add too…? If you’re listening right now and you’re like, “Well, I probably don’t need to listen to this episode because I don’t have kids,” I want to reframe this for you. If these strategies work with kids, they’ll work for anyone.

Verbs: Truth.

Courtney: So, even if you don’t have kids, I think there are going to be a lot of things that you’re like, “Oh, okay. That’s an interesting way to do that.” Everybody has different obstacles. But, again, on this train we’re on, those obstacles never… That feels like a weird analogy. All of a sudden, my children feel like obstacles. They’re not obstacles, but there are just a lot of things you have to continually contend with.

Verbs: They’re growth opportunities.

Blake: Sure. In that sense… Not to just dive in here, Courtney, but it’s almost like when someone says they don’t need a hobby because they love their job. Sometimes that can feel a little bit like, “Well, I’m a parent. I don’t need the rest” or “I don’t deserve the rest” or “I don’t even want the time, because I love being with my kids. I’m just going to give them everything.” What we know is that when you deny how you’re wired…

You don’t take a break from work because you don’t like your job. Hopefully you do like your job. In a similar way, you don’t make time for rest because your kids are this obstacle to it (although, you know, maybe there are some days where it feels that way), but because you love your kids you want to make time to rest, and because you recognize it’s important.

So, let’s talk about it. This episode is going to be a little different. Usually we have a big one, two, three or five steps, and all that stuff. We’re going interview style. I’m going to play the role of… Who am I? Are you guys Fallon guys or are you Conan guys?

Courtney: Oh, I was thinking Oprah.

Blake: Oprah. Yeah. That’s what people tend to… They’re like, “Blake…oh, he’s an Oprah type.” I’ve gotten that a lot.

Courtney: You kind of are. You kind of get into that Enneagram Four-ness. You go deeper.

Verbs: I vote you take it all the way back and just go ahead and channel your inner Phil Donahue or, if you’re really feeling risky, go for your Geraldo Rivera.

Blake: Oh my gosh! I feel like this is a trap. Let’s dive in. Let’s do a little interviewing. Let’s start with the easy ones first. These are the slow-pitch ones. Okay? Each of you, real quick, how many kids do you have? Do you remember? How many kids do you have? How old are they?

Verna: We have three kids. They are 11, 9, and 7 years old.

Courtney: And we have two kids. Our oldest is 5 and our youngest is 5 months.

Blake: Oh my goodness. So, let’s talk about scheduling, because for both cases, both you, Verbs and Verna, and Chase and Courtney… You have kids in different stages. I only have one, so I’m definitely taking notes in this episode. How are your kids’ needs shaping your schedule? Schedule for you, personally. We are talking about kids, but I am interested, ultimately, in talking about you and your individual lives and getting the rest and rejuvenation you need. So, for your own personal schedules, how does that work, and how are your kids influencing your schedule right now? Chase and Courtney, let’s start with you.

Chase: Great question.

Courtney: Do you want to start?

Chase: Yeah. I think we’re in a different… We still have a preschooler, and we have a 5-month-old. They shape our schedules in a lot of ways. You have to figure out a routine, but we have just now… You can speak to everything else, but particularly, this past week was the first week the reality set in of extracurricular activities for us. We’ve never had a nighttime rehearsal or a nighttime recital or those kinds of things. Well, this past week… Our daughter started dance this past year, and all of these rehearsals, and those kinds of things, happen at 6:00 p.m., and we’re like, “What? How did this happen?”

Courtney: At 6:00, we’re coming in for the landing for the night. It’s like 7:00 is bedtime. That’s how we roll in this household. We’re like, “Wait. You want us to do something with the 5-year-old out in the world?”

Chase: So I’d say that’s new for us in this season of kid-shaping. You get in a routine with the first one. You’re like, “Okay.” Obviously, the first 8 to 12 weeks are a blur. You just don’t know. You lack sleep and those kinds of things. Then you set into a schedule. We’ve had that schedule for four years, and then here comes a new one, and you’re like, “Oh no.” Now we’re playing not two on one. We’re playing man-to-man defense right now and trying to figure out our schedules, and that’s really a difficult thing.

Courtney: Yeah. I would say, personally… I talked a lot about this on the episode right when I came back from maternity leave. As far as ongoing, our daily rest and rejuvenation, I’ve set up my schedule where that’s going to happen between 7:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. So, I have to be really intentional with what I do in those hours. What are my rituals? What are the things I need to do to recharge? How am I going to schedule those things?

Those are really important, because from 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m., for me to get rest during those hours basically means I have to turn to the other person and say, “Hey, can you play zone defense so I can go take a 20-minute nap?” That certainly happens, but it’s not something on a daily basis that I’m going to count on. It’s really important for me to set up my schedule from that 7:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m., that there are things in there that help me refuel and recharge for the day.

Blake: Verna, I feel… Correct me if I’m wrong. Last time we talked with you, you had mentioned you were doing school during COVID times. Did you finish out the school year or have you finished out the school year doing school at home still?

Verna: Not officially finished. We finish the end of June, but it’s like three lessons a day. We finished the bulk of our curriculum and it’s just whatever is left over. Sometimes I’ll let them play or I take them to the park, we come back, we do a lesson. We just mix it up so they can still have fun.

Blake: Absolutely. Day to day, though, you are with your kids. Right? They’re not off at school. They’ve been doing school at home. So talk to me. I’m curious your answer or your perspective on this scheduling question. How are your kids right now, as we enter into summer 2021…? What does that rhythm look like for you guys?

Verna: It is a bit more relaxed, because by the end of April, we finished the bulk of our curriculum, and then we just spread everything else out. So, we might take a day off a week and just go to the zoo or do something fun all day, but if we’re home, we do two or three lessons a day and just finish up whatever, and some of it is really just extra work to keep them busy.

Blake: I feel like I need this relationship in my job. I need to talk to my boss. I think that’s a good rhythm for me. Just, “All right. I’m going to do one or two calls, maybe hit up the zoo, and, if there’s time after my nap, circle back to the office.” I like that. That’s great. Let’s shift and let’s talk about rest, and maybe, Verbs and Verna, if you can just keep the momentum here.

What have you learned…? Your kids are a little bit older. Again, I’m taking notes here. What have you learned about rest as you’ve been in these different seasons of parenthood and even now? I think about this last year and a half and just how wild it was in general because of the pandemic. What have you been learning about rest as you’ve been parenting, and maybe specifically in these last couple of years?

Verbs: I’ll share this (I know I’ve mentioned it on this show before) as far as context. We’ve been schooling at home pretty much from the beginning, but with that, as Chase and Courtney mentioned, there are these seasons you go through as your kids grow. They get older. They get into these extracurricular seasons.

Where we talk about an Ideal Week… It’s almost like you need probably three different versions of what an Ideal Week could look like, depending on the season your child is in and what they’re involved with, so at least it doesn’t come as a shock. You can just switch to “All right. Let’s do Ideal Week B now that we’re starting soccer,” like we recently had to go to.

As they grow, you realize that has to shift a little bit, because it’s just a season change we have to be aware of as well. What we’ve been learning is, again, the importance of rest (and we’ve tried this multiple times through the years), the importance of having a day where we’re not scheduling anything. It’s not required of us to be somewhere specific, but let’s just do as little as possible and get rest.

That includes chores. We’ll try to do those a day before so it’s not something that’s in the back of our minds. “Well, we have to get to this before the week kicks off.” Those sorts of things are what we’ve tried to implement over the last couple of years, and then encouraging our kids to do the same. “Hey, let’s be still for today. It doesn’t necessarily mean go take a nap for two hours, but let’s just dial it down so we can subside some of this busyness.”

Verna: I would say Sundays are kind of an official day of rest, even if it’s just two hours, and they know this, because we’ve taught them about the day of rest. If we say, “Hey, everybody is going to lay down for two hours. Read a book or sleep, but stay down and just rest,” they know what that means now, so we can do that at least once a week.

Verbs: There’s resistance to it, but you check in with them about an hour and a half into it, and they’re asleep. But just to get them in the habit of saying, “Hey, we don’t have to always be go, go, go, because you’ll actually need this moment of rest you’re getting for your week ahead.”

Blake: Chase and Courtney, I’ve been curious, because, Chase, I don’t know your schedule in detail, but typically, you think of a pastor in a community church… A lot of weekend responsibilities. And, Courtney, our schedule at Michael Hyatt & Company is the typical Monday through Friday. My dad is actually in ministry, so I’m aware that ministry is not this 9:00-to-whatever thing. There are all kinds of stuff.

So I’m curious. What kinds of conversations have you all had to have about rest or about saying no or about changing your schedule, and why have those been important? Take me into one of those conversations or maybe a memory where you were like, “You know what? We really need to take a break” or “We need to change our…” Verbs mentioned the Ideal Week. What does that look like for you guys?

Courtney: First of all, shall we just acknowledge how great Verbs and Verna sound?

Chase: I know. Their voices. We sound like Mount Juliets.

Courtney: We are from Mount Juliet. Everybody listening is like, “I don’t know where Mount Juliet is.” Well, Nate Bargatze talks about our hometown in one of his Netflix specials, so everybody should know Mount Juliet now. When they were talking, I was reminded how, before we had Ellis, you and I worked really hard on trying to make Saturdays our day to just rest, and we would do basically anything that needed to get done…

Because usually, my default was to be like… Any big project we would tackle on Saturday. Like, “We’ll do that on Saturday.” For Chase and me, it’s really our one day of the week that we’re all home. We’re not working. We realized, “We really need to try to move as many things off of Saturday… We have to protect Saturday. Otherwise, that’s it. There’s not another day that we’re all home.” So we were really intentional about trying to get as much done leading up to that day so that on Saturday we could rest.

Chase: This is something I’ve had to learn over time. Whenever you’re in ministry or you’re pastoring a church, whatever that time frame, you constantly have phone calls, you’re constantly available to people, but something I learned a long time ago…somebody really coached me in this…is that that’s really not my first priority in ministry. My first ministry is to my family. If I can get that right and if I can have that area of my life healthy, then it’s going to translate to the other people side of my life, and that’s going to be healthier.

I was thinking about that question, rest being important as a parent… Over time, I’ve learned to reshape that kind of question to “What kind of parent do I want my kids to experience? What do I want them to see in me?” I know that when I’m tired or beat up or worn out or busy dad… I know what dad that is, and when I do those things, I certainly don’t give my best. I think we all can see that. Whenever we have busy schedules and we’re not rested, we don’t give our best.

I’m less patient when I’m tired, I have less compassion, and my tension is shorter with my kids. I’ve said this in certain seasons. I’ve been like, “Man, I don’t feel like I’ve been a good dad this week,” and that’s because my schedule has been overwhelming and I haven’t taken time to rest. When I’m rested, I’m reenergized. I extend patience. I’m overall a kinder person. I think that’s in general.

Courtney: I think you can take bedtime, getting a kid to go to bed, as your thermometer on how rested you are, because, guys, getting 5-year-olds to bed is… I mean, if you haven’t experienced it, guys, it seems like, “How hard could this be?” It is so hard. It’s like, “Why is this the worst thing?” If you’re not rested and you are overextended, I think you can really tell in those moments. The patience level is so small. For us, a really great analogy is “What kind of parent do we want to show up as?” and I think that’s why rejuvenation and how we schedule that and plan for that is really important.

Blake: There have been times where my wife and I have mutually felt stuck with our level of rest and rejuvenation, where it has been like, “Well, we’re just on demand 24/7 right now” or “Our daughter has these needs, and you have these work commitments…” What I would love to hear is has there ever been a time… Because I’m sure our listeners can relate, where they feel like, “Yes, I get it. I am a better parent when I have rest, but I feel stuck right now.”

Chase and Courtney, I’ll start with you on this. Can you remember a time where you felt stuck with your level of rest, and what was a creative way that you discovered, I guess, to sneak in some rest? Maybe it was a power nap or changing a babysitting schedule or something. Has that ever happened to you?

Courtney: I think for us… I’m speaking for both of us, so clarify me if I’m wrong. I think reframing what rest is… Especially in our early 30s, we thought of rest as “We’re going to go watch a show.” There are certainly some seasons of that when that can be somewhat rejuvenating, but that’s not the kind of real rest… That’s not the kind of thing that makes me feel on the flip side like, “Oh gosh! Yeah, I feel so good. Let’s do this. Let’s take on life.” So, reframing what those things were was really important to us.

Blake: What was something? I’m just trying to think what is more restful than reruns of The Office. I’m stumped.

Courtney: Well, I personally love to get a massage. I love to read at night. We’ll go outside and sit by the fire. I will have friends over at night. I have some neighbors who also have kids. It’s like, once everybody’s kids are down, let’s come sit around the fire and just talk. In addition to that, sometimes… Again, in my early 30s, our MO would be “Hey, get our daughter down and let’s immediately start watching a show.” Really, it’s better for me to schedule things where I can get the dishwasher loaded, get some things done to really feel like, “Okay. Now I can totally relax.”

Sometimes resting for me means… Verna, I don’t know if you feel this way. It’s like, hey, I’m going to get the kids down, and I’m going to get totally ready for bed. I’m going to take my makeup off. I’m going to put on PJs. I’m ready for bed, and that feels a lot more relaxing. You know, go sit by the fire. Again, it’s like that airplane. The kids have landed. Now I’m going to take this in for a landing.

Verna: Yeah. I will say this. Like what Mike was saying, we just finished soccer season. I realized at 8:00, I’m like, “Guys, it’s my bedtime too.” The times that we would get back right before 8:00, at 7:30 or 7:45… I’m like, “Everybody take a shower and straight to bed.” If they are still hyped up, I’m like, “I’m done.” I hug everybody good night. I hand it over to Mike. I’m like, “You can pray for them and put them to bed. I’m done.” That is fine with me, because I need rest so I can be a better parent the next day.

Verbs: I think that’s something important that you mentioned, Courtney. You know, how do you view rest? You actually shared this with me after you came back from your trip, but thinking of rest as something… Like, the short, abbreviated version of “What is restorative?” So, what kinds of activities get you back in a restored place? That way you can confront the day tomorrow. You can parent from a better posture because you’ve done…

It could be sleep, but like you said, it could be something else. It could be reading a good book, something that’s restorative to your mind…well, really your whole person…so you can be a better person and work from that versus… Because you could be resting, taking a nap, but still be thinking about work. That’s not necessarily restorative, because your brain is still going in one direction. What kind of pulls you back? Is it a hobby, some sort of low-energy activity? What is it that actually gets you to a restored state?

Blake: I’m curious if anyone has a thought about time, about someone listening going, “Yeah. For us, it just feels like there’s no time. I just don’t have enough time.” What are some strategies you’ve used to maximize your time? Obviously, we all have the same amount of time, but something we’ve talked about on past episodes has been… Tools in the planner, even, like the Ideal Week or the Weekly Preview…those types of things.

We can figure out ways to organize our lives, I guess, to sort of find those pockets of time for rest. But for the listener going, “You know what? I hear all this, and these are some good tips. I wish I had more time,” what would you say? What advice would you give or what’s a tool or a practice you’ve helped each other incorporate as parents to “find more time”?

Verbs: Sure. I’ll start.

Blake: Go for it.

Verbs: I think, again, it’s going to adjust with the season your kids are in, but just knowing that and trying to stay ahead of it as much as you can. I know this might be different for people who may be in a single parent home and don’t have a spouse they can trade off and kind of pass the baton with as far as who takes the kids for these couple of hours, or something like that, but they may have other options as far as family or friends.

One thing we actually just did last night is continuing that practice of, first, just communicating with each other what our weeks are going to look like. You know, sitting down, doing a Quarterly Preview, you know, now that we’re going into summertime, reviewing what the next two months look like, because if I have a run where I’m going to be out of the house working, that means she’s here with the kids pretty much for those eight hours of the day. So, how do I need to come and tag back in so she can get a time of rest, whatever that may look like?

I think just communicating and finding those pockets within our schedules of “Hey, here’s a time on Thursday. When you come back, it’ll be good if you can take the kids and go outside and play soccer with them or do something.” That way she can figure out what that time looks like for her. You have to be super intentional about it when you have multiple kids who might have extracurricular activities and they’re all different. Then it becomes even that more imperative to get everybody’s schedules, look at what’s going on, look at your schedule, and figure out “How can we get this in? What blocks do we need to move around?”

Chase: I like that, Verbs. I like the idea of being intentional. I love that word. What doesn’t get scheduled doesn’t get done. Even over the past couple of weeks, there have been moments where something didn’t get on my calendar, and it caused a ton of stress the day. We’re like, “Oh, yeah. You’re supposed to take…” I’m like, “Well, that messes up the whole schedule.” But I didn’t get it on the calendar. Whenever you talk about communication… That’s the most important thing with us. Have we communicated about the week coming up, and have we scheduled things that will give us margin to give us rest? If surprises come up, it really throws some things off.

Courtney: I would just add that I think reframing time and your agency with time is really important. A lot of times, we just think all of these things are happening to us and we don’t have any agency. How we spend our time really is our choice. I mean, it’s my choice. Now I may choose to spend it… What did you say, Blake? Like, going to the zoo and doing two things a day. I might lose my job, but it’s still my choice. This is a conversation we have with our 5-year-old all the time. It’s like, “Well, you can do that, but this is what’s going to happen if you do that. But it’s your choice.” So, I think reframing how we use time and giving ourselves back the power to determine what we’re going to do.

Verbs: I’ll add this with what Courtney just said. The extra secret sauce is just the power of “no” sometimes, where it’s like, “You know what? We don’t actually have to be at everything we get invited to if that means we’re going to sacrifice some sort of well-needed rest.” It’s fine to say no or decline an invitation somewhere and use that time to actually rest and be restored in whatever way you need to.

Blake: Thank y’all for sharing your experience. I feel like we could just keep going on this, but I’ll wrap this up in the interest of time. I’ve heard a theme of communication and scheduling as an X factor. If rest is going to happen, it’s because we’ve communicated, we’ve decided what we want, we’ve decided what to say no to, we’re on the same page, and stuff just ended up on the calendar.

So, I want to hear from each couple. What’s one strategy or tip or routine you’ve discovered or that you would offer as saying, “Hey, if you’re struggling with that piece of things, as you’re raising kids and trying to keep your own rest and sanity, try this.” What would you say? Verbs and Verna, why don’t you go first.

Verbs: This is going to sound super cliché on this podcast, but we get the most out of our time and our schedule when we’re actually planning together. Normally, that’s in the form of a Weekly Preview. When we both have visibility into what each other is doing, what we have coming up that week, then that whole week goes a lot smoother and the fewer conversations that have tension in them because we haven’t communicated about someone having to be somewhere or one of us having to be somewhere. So, for us, I think it’s just continuing in that routine.

Verna: I agree. That’s good.

Courtney: Yes, the Weekly Preview. I totally agree with Verbs. Another tip, I would say, is just to ask your partner how they best get rest. It was really great even just talking about this episode, because Chase and I started talking about “Hey, what do you do that you get the best rest?” A lot of those things you intuitively know, but sometimes you’re surprised. Once you know those things, you can advocate for the other person. You can say, “Hey, why don’t you go to the driving range for an hour and go hit golf balls.”

All of a sudden, that feels less like, “Oh, this person has left me here with the kids to go hit golf balls” and more like, “Oh, Chase is going to go do that thing that really rejuvenates him, that he really finds rest in, and then when he comes back, he’s going to be more present, more here with us,” and vice versa for me. It feels a lot more collaborative and like “We’re on the same team here” and less like, “Oh, you’re getting time that I’m not getting” or that kind of thing.

Chase: That’s good. Kind of what Verbs was referring to… They meet together as a family. That’s so important to walk through your Weekly Preview together. Also, I think it’s important for us, as parents, to be able to envision the end in mind, come with the end in mind. Like, “What kind of story do I want my kids to tell about me as a parent?” Part of that is… I tell this to parents all the time. In my role, I work with parents all the time. You don’t have to be perfect as a parent; you just have to be intentional as a parent.

I do believe that when we are intentional with our time, our kids benefit from that. I think it’s important to note that our kids model the behavior we want to see. If we want them to grow into healthy adults in life, then we have to model that for them. I say this pretty often: you repeat what’s most important to you. Volume speaks value. The more we do something, the more we model that, the greater opportunity our kids have to be able to see it and then do that themselves.

Blake: Excellent. Thank you, Chase and Courtney, Verbs and Verna, for weighing in on this. Being a parent does not mean you have to give up rest or your right to rejuvenation. As Chase eloquently put it, with some intentionality, you can find ways to rest individually, find ways to rest as a couple, as a family.

I want to thank each of you for joining us on this episode of Focus on This. Super fun episode. I’m sure we’ll get great feedback. If you’re listening and you’re not a member of our Full Focus Community on Facebook, jump in. Give us feedback on this episode. Ask follow-up questions. I’ll send all of those directly to Chase, because he’s far better… “Far better well-spoken than me” is what I was just about to say, which proves my point entirely.

But for now, thank you for joining us on Focus on This. Chase and Verna, you know what people are talking about. It’s an international sensation. People are calling it the most productive podcast on the Internet. We’ll be here next week with another great episode. So, until then, ladies and gentlemen…

All: Stay focused!