305. The Achiever: The Inertia of Being Unstoppable

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Marissa: If you know Hermione Granger, Rocky Balboa, or Alexander Hamilton, then you’ve seen the achiever in action. These relentless dynamos have enough drive to power a small country, and they are not throwing away their shot. The problem? It might be costing them and the people they love

[00:00:31] Welcome to Focus on This, the most productive podcast on the internet. I’m Marisa Hyatt.

[00:00:36] Joel: And I’m Joel Miller.

[00:00:37] Marissa: This is where we remind you of something you already know. It’s not about getting more things done, it’s about getting the right things done.

[00:00:45] Joel: Both at work and in life. And today, we’re on our second work style.

[00:00:51] We’re talking about The Achiever. In case you missed our introductory episode, your work style is our brand new free assessment. Essentially, your work style defines how you tend to show up at work, and there are five. The five that we’ll cover over the course of this series are the one we hit last week, The Giver.

[00:01:12] That’s the one who everyone depends on. Then there’s The Achiever. That’s who we’re covering today. That’s the one who never stops moving. Then there’s The Juggler, the one who’s carrying it all alone The optimizer, the one who needs it done just right, and then the improviser, the one who probably has 120 tabs open on their browser right now.

[00:01:37] Marissa: I love all of these, and there’s not a bad one in the bunch. Uh, today we’re gonna be diving in specifically to the achiever. And Joel, I feel like if Full Focus had a work style as a brand, we would be the achiever.

[00:01:51] Joel: That’s probably true. You know, first off, our founder, Michael, is undoubtedly a achiever.

[00:01:58] Marissa: Absolutely.

[00:01:59] Joel: It’s just kind of in the DNA of the company. I am not an achiever.

[00:02:03] Marissa: Yeah.

[00:02:03] Joel: But I have an achiever mode, which you’ll hear about when we get to my work style. That achiever mode, when it gets turned on, matches the speed of the rest of the company. But the rest of the company definitely has an achiever vibe.

[00:02:17] Marissa: I would say this is maybe my secondary- Mm-hmm … type. Um, it’s not my primary. We’ll get to that one in the coming weeks. But I have a lot of achiever in me, probably because my dad, Michael Hyatt, is an achiever. I was raised by one. That was kind of the culture that I lived in for my whole life, frankly. Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:38] And now, especially working at Full Focus, I would say this is one of the primary types that we see in our coaching clients is the achiever.

[00:02:48] Joel: I definitely have a lot of achievers on my coaching calls. I mean, honestly, there’s a smattering of all of them, but the achievers stand out, for sure.

[00:02:56] Marissa: Well, listen up because either hopefully you’re listening knowing that this is you, or you may start to be able to identify achievers in your life, and we wanna give you a few clues on how to identify an achiever.

[00:03:11] So the first one is the satisfaction of finishing whatever it is, a goal, a task, a project, anything, lasts precisely about one minute. Yeah. You finish, and you immediately look for what’s next.

[00:03:29] Joel: Well, I mean, the treadmill’s always going, right? So it’s pretty hard to sit down and, like, bask in the glory of the, of the completion when there’s obviously 14 other things to do.

[00:03:41] Marissa: Well, and I would say one of the telltale signs related to this is that kind of the goalpost is constantly moving.

[00:03:48] Joel: Oh, yeah.

[00:03:49] Marissa: Absolutely. Right? So, like, you achieve one thing, and then it’s like, great, that was awesome, but now there’s another level that I’ve just unlocked- Yeah … that now I need to go to that next level.

[00:03:57] And so if you start to see that in your own behavior or some of your team members’ behavior Chances are they’re probably an achiever.

[00:04:04] Joel: Right. One of the other telltale signs for an achiever is that an empty hour is kind of like a waste. You know- Yeah … you could have done something productive. You could have been investing in getting stuff done.

[00:04:18] And- Right … if you are sitting out there on the Adirondack, you know, with a lemonade, that’s a wasted hour. You could have- Yeah … done something with that time.

[00:04:27] Marissa: I think that this is really key for identifying achievers, and you may notice this in yourself if you are one, that even rest often feels like something that needs to be productive.

[00:04:40] Joel: Right.

[00:04:40] Marissa: Like, there has to be, if you’re doing a hobby for instance, it needs to be something that you’re learning, right? Right. Like, it’s not just for the sake of pleasure and enjoyment. It’s like, no, I’ve gotta be learning. I’ve gotta be expanding my skillset.

[00:04:54] Joel: Right. And all the better if you can monetize it after about three weeks.

[00:04:57] Marissa: Oh, gosh. Exactly.

[00:04:58] Joel: Yeah.

[00:04:59] Marissa: Yeah, we don’t know anybody like this.

[00:05:00] Joel: No, not, I mean, not a single person.

[00:05:04] Marissa: Uh, well, next telltale sign is that being helped is usually just frustrating.

[00:05:09] Joel: Right.

[00:05:09] Marissa: Most of the time you can do it better and faster. I would say this type arguably needs delegation the most, and they’re probably the most reluctant because- Totally

[00:05:18] it’s just easier for them to do it themselves than have to slow down, have to talk to somebody, explain it, deal with the frustration of them not getting it done right, and not the way that they would do it if they could just do it, right? And so it’s usually just frustrating to have somebody else step in and help.

[00:05:35] It feels like an inconvenience.

[00:05:37] Joel: And this happens in leaders all the time because people who are achievers tend to be the kind of people that are driven enough to work up the ladder in organizations. Right. And so the people that need delegation the most, i.e., people in leadership who’s, like, presumably their whole job is a form of delegation, struggle with it the most.

[00:06:00] Marissa: Absolutely. And if you’re listening and thinking, “Huh, I wonder if my boss is an achiever,” this is a good time to share the episode with them, um- Oh, absolutely …

[00:06:09] Joel: because

[00:06:09] Marissa: they probably are, or if nothing else, it will help them lead achievers more effectively.

[00:06:15] Joel: All right. Another telltale sign is your favorite reward.

[00:06:19] It has a word with a few letters in it, uh, longer than most: momentum. That’s your favorite reward. Nothing is better than making it happen, and the more you have to show at the end of the day, the better you feel. It’s always great to get a head start on the next day when you’re an achiever because momentum is the driver.

[00:06:39] Marissa: I think, um, a lot of achievers, they enjoy having a planner. Mm-hmm. They enjoy having a list that they can check items off so that by the end of the day, they can have this whole list to show with all of these tasks checked off, and they enjoy that. They like- Right … that because it says to them, “Yeah, I did a lot today.

[00:06:59] It was productive. I didn’t waste a second.”

[00:07:02] Mekel: Right. “

[00:07:02] Marissa: And that momentum can help carry me into the next day.” It’s like fuel. The more that they get, the more that they want. And- Yeah … it feels like they just keep pressing on. No matter how much they’ve gotten accomplished, they wanna keep going.

[00:07:15] Joel: I know achievers that will retroactively fill out part of their planner.

[00:07:20] Marissa: Yeah.

[00:07:20] Joel: Or things that they had accomplished but weren’t even on their list. They’re like, “Write it and check it,” because-

[00:07:26] Marissa: I, I’m guilty of that.

[00:07:28] Joel: You don’t get credit for it, right? No. If it’s not checked off. So-

[00:07:32] Marissa: Yeah, and it feels really good, and they’re probably posting an Instagram story of their, you know, completed list at the end of the day- Yeah

[00:07:39] feeling like, “Oh, I got a little gold star. Good job. I did all the things I needed to do.” The other telltale sign is that vacation can become another mountain to conquer. So how many things can you do and how many places can you see? Probably not enough.

[00:07:57] Joel: No, but you’re gonna try.

[00:07:58] Marissa: But you’re gonna try. You know, these are the people that are not just trying to go and sit on a beach somewhere, most often, right?

[00:08:06] Right. These are the people that are like, “Let’s go to Europe and do… You know, from sun up to sun down we’re doing tours, and we’ve got a whole agenda.” They’re just kind of trying to pack every minute because what else are they gonna do?

[00:08:21] Joel: Well, that’s what you do. Right.

[00:08:22] Marissa: They don’t like to sit still.

[00:08:24] Joel: One thing I hope comes through in all of these episodes where we talk about these work styles is number one, that you feel seen if you are an achiever.

[00:08:34] And number two, there’s nothing wrong with being an achiever. Like, every one of these work styles contributes something really important to the world, to your organization, to your own life, but every one of them has some upsides and has some downsides. Mm-hmm. So I think it’s really important, it’s really valuable for people to feel seen in how they show up and be recognized for their strengths.

[00:08:57] And like Marissa said a minute ago, if you know anyone like this, make sure you share this episode with them. They’re gonna wanna hear about themselves. Like, we love to see and hear the things that we bring to the world recognized and validated by others. But as I said, there’s a double-edged sword.

[00:09:17] There’s an upside and a downside. So why don’t you walk us through the one thing- Yeah … that is this double-edged sword, that makes you both exceptional and can leave you exhausted.

[00:09:28] Marissa: Yeah. Well, for the achiever, this is really about drive. So for you, drive really is what makes you exceptional. This is why we love achievers in our life, in our workplaces.

[00:09:43] This is exactly why we love them, because you turn intention into finished work. You’re the ones who kind of bring it on home, right? You’re gonna make stuff happen. My dad, as a side note, his initials are MSH, and he always jokes that it stands for Make Stuff Happen.

[00:10:06] Joel: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:08] Marissa: That’s who he is, right? And

[00:10:09] Joel: he does.

[00:10:10] Marissa: And he does. He makes a lot of stuff. We are constantly blown away at, like, how are you even doing all of this? It’s wild.

[00:10:17] Joel: There’s that line about if you want something done, give it to a busy person.

[00:10:21] Marissa: Right.

[00:10:22] Joel: And I think that achievers embody that-

[00:10:25] Marissa: Yeah …

[00:10:25] Joel: that aphorism.

[00:10:26] Marissa: Well, they finish fast, and they tackle an impressive volume.

[00:10:32] Joel: Right.

[00:10:33] Marissa: So these are kind of the workhorses, so to speak, on the team that just- They’re constantly able to pump it out and make it happen. Whatever the thing is, the project that needs to be brought home, this is the person that’s gonna make that happen.

[00:10:47] Joel: Yeah, and they’re known for it, right? So they have a…

[00:10:49] Their work ethic is, like, legendary. Yeah. It’s, it’s got a reputation that precedes them wherever they go, however they show up. People recognize this about them almost instantly if they don’t already know it intuitively.

[00:11:03] Marissa: Well, these are the people that are probably staying later than anybody else, or even when they’re, like, not working, they’re always- Right

[00:11:10] working.

[00:11:11] Joel: Right.

[00:11:11] Marissa: Or they have a lot of hobbies that they would say are hobbies, and they’re kind of just- But

[00:11:16] Joel: are actually just other forms of work …

[00:11:17] Marissa: other forms of work, right? Yeah. These are the people that are, uh, gonna probably find it difficult to take time off- Right … or to stop, because they just have this insatiable drive.

[00:11:30] Mekel: Right.

[00:11:30] Marissa: And they also raise the bar of what people believe is possible. This is one of my favorite things about achievers, is you think you know, like, here’s the bar, here’s what’s possible, here’s what we can feasibly do in this amount of time, or, you know, with these constraints, and this is the person that’s gonna blow past it all.

[00:11:49] And you’re sitting there going, “Oh my gosh, how did you just make that happen?” Right. “How did you just do that? Like, I didn’t even know that that was possible,” whether it’s in terms of their actual work ethic, like we talked about, or in terms of the results that they’re able to deliver. Like, these people deliver results.

[00:12:06] Joel: I, uh, love the movie Patton starring George C. Scott. I’ve seen this probably 15 times in my life. I

[00:12:13] Marissa: have not seen this. I have data to watch.

[00:12:16] Joel: Patton is 1,000% an achiever, and there’s a scene in the movie, there’s several, but there’s a scene in the movie that exemplifies what you just said. Mm. He’s leading these men- They have to cross a river, and he’s got these, you know, these guys on one side of the river sitting there looking at maps, and they’re trying to figure out the best place to cross, and he’s already across the river yelling at them, like, “Go down there.

[00:12:40] Just come over it,” you know? Like, he’s already figured it out. There’s just nothing in between you and the goal- Yeah … that can’t be obliterated.

[00:12:46] Marissa: Yeah.

[00:12:46] Joel: You know?

[00:12:47] Marissa: Absolutely, and we love that about achievers. Like, these are the people that we’re… When we need something done, when we need those results, when we need to make it happen, these are the people that we call.

[00:12:56] Joel: But there’s a

[00:12:58] Marissa: downside to this. There’s a

[00:12:59] Joel: downside also. That same drive that is your superpower, that makes you exceptional at work is also the thing that leads to your exhaustion. Yeah. So drive in one, you know, manifestation is that’s what makes you amazing. It’s also the thing that just wipes you out.

[00:13:17] You struggle to tolerate open loops for those unchecked boxes, you know, like the things that are just not quite finished. You cannot allow that to sit there in the planner more than a day or two before you are sacrificing rest hours in order to get it done. You don’t even realize you’re tired until you’re almost completely spent.

[00:13:38] Mekel: Yeah.

[00:13:38] Joel: In fact, I think one of the ways that achievers end up kind of experiencing this is their wake-up call to their own workload only happens once they, once they reach burnout.

[00:13:52] Marissa: Yeah. I think, um, they’re fully unaware of their limits, and- Right … it’s just like, you know, we’re on to the next thing, and then before they know it, they’re just completely wiped out.

[00:14:04] Joel: Well, this is the flip side of what you just mentioned a minute ago, that they raise the bar of what people believe is possible.

[00:14:09] Marissa: Yeah, exactly.

[00:14:10] Joel: They get there by breaking through boundaries all the time, and if there’s an obstacle, they overcome it. But at some point, there’s just not enough gas left in the tank, and so they experience the downside.

[00:14:22] Marissa: Unfortunately, one of the ways that this often shows up for achievers is through their body And it ends up coming out sideways, this requirement for rest, and don’t ask me how I know this because I’m, have been c- recovering from a shoulder injury. And one of the things, just for me, I shared that this is kind of my subtype, if you will.

[00:14:47] One of the things that I have been working on in therapy is it’s okay to rest. And my body, in the context of me, and this is not even my primary work style, is my body said no. Right. My body finally said, “Hey, you need to actually slow down and rest and take some of this pressure, some of this intensity, some of this drive, and like switch gears a little bit,” right?

[00:15:16] We’re not saying to totally come to a screeching halt, but just switch gears and slow down. And so I think for an achiever, this can be really challenging because they’re just not even aware that the limit exists in the first place.

[00:15:30] Joel: Right. And they come with like a default setting, a commitment to outworking the chaos.

[00:15:34] Right. You know? Like, the world is nuts. There’s a million things left undone. They’re just like default committed to getting it done.

[00:15:42] Marissa: Yeah.

[00:15:42] Joel: And so that takes precedent over rest every time. And so when you finally reach the edge of what you’re actually capable of, you’re like well past when you needed a break.

[00:15:55] Marissa: Well, and if you’re somebody who is leading achievers or if you yourself are an achiever, you’re gonna have to remind these people to schedule time off.

[00:16:05] Joel: Yeah.

[00:16:06] Marissa: Like, they’re not gonna ever think that it’s a good time to take off because they don’t enjoy taking off, right? They wanna keep working. They like the feeling of accomplishing things, checking things off, making it happen.

[00:16:16] And this is a type of person where you have to say, “Hey, have you scheduled your PTO for the quarter?” Right. “And if not, go ahead and do it.” And then you have to make sure that they actually follow through with it because that time will come around, and they’ll think- Yeah … “Oh, it’s no big deal. I can keep going.”

[00:16:31] And, you know, before you know it, they’re just beyond exhausted.

[00:16:36] Joel: I used to work in a company, and this’ll, this’ll tell you the difference between an achiever and a potentially another type. I used to work in a company where PTO, if you didn’t take it, you could take as cash at the end of the- Oh, wow … at the end of the period I would get two weeks vacation in this company, and I always took just one because I needed the money, and so I was willing to sacrifice the week of PTO so I could get the cash.

[00:17:03] But the achiever would also skip that week and maybe the other week too, not for the cash, but because they just love doing the job.

[00:17:12] Marissa: Absolutely. What a terrible way to encourage not resting. Not taking time off.

[00:17:19] Joel: They eventually got rid of that policy.

[00:17:20] Marissa: Yeah. Um.

[00:17:22] Joel: Because that was exactly what was

[00:17:23] Marissa: happening. I think all the research would point to that’s a terrible strategy for a business.

[00:17:27] Joel: Yeah. How do you know you’re an achiever? You might already know you’re an achiever, but if you don’t and just wanna dial this in and get the full report on how achievers show up at work, how they can, you know, mitigate some of the downsides, and how they can really optimize where things are going well for them, you’re gonna wanna take the work style assessment.

[00:17:48] So go to fullfocus.co/ws. Fullfocus.co/ws.

[00:18:08] Marissa: Well, there is a cost over time, right? If, if you’re an achiever and you start to see, like, I have this amazing drive, it is incredible, and there may be some downsides to it, right? There may be some things that are leading to exhaustion. Well, that has a cost. The more that we experience this, the more that it’s gonna compound over time.

[00:18:30] And so every obstacle gets answered with more effort.

[00:18:35] Joel: You know, there’s a consequence to that. It’s pretty obvious. Yeah. Your recovery keeps losing to one more task. Your output never slips, but then you- Mm … start slipping.

[00:18:44] Marissa: Which is the worst nightmare of an achiever, right?

[00:18:48] Joel: Right. Absolutely.

[00:18:49] Marissa: And over time, you lose your ability to be present, to be able to slow down and be with the people that are closest to you.

[00:19:00] And you know this feeling well if you’re an achiever, right? You’re sitting through a conversation, or you’re interrupted. I would say interruption is probably the worst feeling for an achiever because they kind of get laser locked on whatever it is they’re trying to accomplish. And so when your kid runs in, or your spouse, or a colleague comes in, and you’re in the middle of working on a project, you don’t care what the need is there, right?

[00:19:28] You’re not feeling present with that person. You’re just trying to get back to what it is that you were doing, or sitting down and having a slow, unhurried dinner-

[00:19:38] Joel: Right …

[00:19:39] Marissa: feels inconvenient.

[00:19:41] Joel: And a waste.

[00:19:42] Marissa: And a waste.

[00:19:43] Joel: As a part of that, like, one of the things that kind of just naturally outflows of that or, or relates to it is that your identity is just, like, enmeshed with your output.

[00:19:52] You start to believe that your value is defined by your performance. And in a work context, it’s not like that’s a lie in a way. In a work context, that’s kind of true. Like, we’re there to produce for the organization some product. So it’s easy to fall for that and then absolutize it so that suddenly now that becomes your identity.

[00:20:14] Yeah. And that’s a misfire.

[00:20:16] Marissa: It is, and it’s a very easy trap to fall into for achievers, both in the work context and in their personal lives, where they feel like, “If I’m not producing, if I’m not being productive and accomplishing- Right … something, what is my contribution? What is my worth in this situation?”

[00:20:36] Joel: Hence the reason why all those hobbies have to end up being productive-

[00:20:40] Marissa: Exactly … or,

[00:20:40] Joel: or being able to be turned into a side hustle or something like that.

[00:20:43] Marissa: Somehow monetized. Yeah. It’s like you start to bake this sourdough bread, and before you know it, you’re like, “I should do a s- you know, a side business for this.

[00:20:52] I should start selling this.” Right. And it’s like, why can’t you just enjoy baking the bread, right?

[00:20:57] Joel: Because there’s a booth at the farmers market that you could be at selling 120 loaves a week.

[00:21:02] Marissa: Exactly. Well, let’s talk about one key area, key growth strategy for you achievers, something that you can learn from to be able to still be in your fullness as an achiever and avoid that kind of looming burnout that is probably on its way to you.

[00:21:22] Joel: Okay, so one key growth strategy for an achiever is… And you already alluded to this, by the way, Marissa, when you said that the goalpost keeps moving. Right. Like, stop moving the goalpost. Just give yourself a finish line and, like, live with it-

[00:21:37] Marissa: Yeah …

[00:21:38] Joel: for a day.

[00:21:38] Marissa: Yeah.

[00:21:38] Joel: It’ll be okay.

[00:21:39] Marissa: You’ve got to define in advance, to be clear it has to be in advance, what done actually looks like.

[00:21:47] Like you’ve got to- Yeah … define your done because otherwise, it’s just gonna keep going and going and going. You’re not gonna want to stop because we know you have that insatiable drive. So whether that’s for today, for this week, for this project Figure out what done looks like before you ever get there so that by the time you do get there, you can go, “Okay, it’s done.”

[00:22:12] Joel: Achievers will probably hate this, but whatever your, like, sort of official time off work is, like, if you, if you end the day at 5:00 or you end the day at 6:00 or you end the day at 4:00, whatever it is, try setting that a half hour before.

[00:22:25] Marissa: Hmm.

[00:22:25] Joel: And, like, getting done by, if it’s 5:00, by 4:30, and then being done.

[00:22:30] Marissa: Yeah.

[00:22:30] Joel: Give yourself a half hour that is not occupied by finding yet another task to fill that half hour.

[00:22:36] Marissa: Uh, just a funny strategy that my dad, who is an achiever, who is the quintessential achiever- Yeah … had to implement at one point in his life to help him be done. He had all of his office lights automated so that at 6:00 PM, I think it was at that point in his life- Right

[00:22:56] and I don’t know how long ago this was, but at 6:00 PM every single evening, all of those lights would go off.

[00:23:03] Joel: Whether he was ready for it or not.

[00:23:04] Marissa: Yeah. I’ve heard people doing this, like, putting their Wi-Fi on a timer, and so it shuts off at a certain time, so all of a sudden, oh my gosh, I don’t have internet.

[00:23:12] So whatever you need to do to put some boundaries in place for yourself to literally step off the treadmill.

[00:23:21] Joel: Yeah. ‘

[00:23:22] Marissa: Cause otherwise you’re gonna just keep going and keep going and keep going. You have the incredible ability of both kind of tenacity of, like, just staying on something until it’s finished, and endurance.

[00:23:36] Joel: Yeah.

[00:23:36] Marissa: You can go longer and harder than most people, and so you’re gonna have to manufacture this into your workday, and potentially into your personal life, depending on what you’ve got going on there, but certainly into your workday.

[00:23:50] Joel: Right. If you are unstoppable, you have to choose to stop yourself.

[00:23:53] Marissa: Yeah.

[00:23:54] You can translate this into your weekly big three and your daily big three. Define what it looks like to be done. What are the wins that you need to accomplish this week, this day? And when you’ve done that, when you’ve done those three things on your weekly big three or your daily big three, like, you are good.

[00:24:12] You are done. You are finished.

[00:24:14] Joel: Well, let’s hear from some achievers. Last week we talked to some givers. Let’s hear from some achievers.

[00:24:29] Marissa: Sally, hello.

[00:24:30] Sally: Morning, Joel.

[00:24:32] Joel: You took the assessment. You got the achiever, and thought what?

[00:24:37] Sally: I immediately was curious to include it in my Maps profile and see how it aligned.

[00:24:44] Joel: Yeah.

[00:24:45] Sally: And it was right on the money. You know, I listened to this Monday’s podcast to listen to all of the types, and a- as y’all were going through them I thought, “Yeah, I’m a little bit of everything,” but that’s kind of how every assessment is, right?

[00:24:57] It’s just like- Yeah … we’re bits of everything. But yeah, it really overlaps for me with, um, problems I’ve had in the past, but it was really affirming too to see how much, um, using the full focus system has helped me overcome, and I’m like, “Yeah, I don’t do that anymore.” But I for sure could be, and it’s… I revert back sometimes if I’m not using my system.

[00:25:20] Joel: If you had to think on the negative side of your work style, what does it cost you? To kind of have that disposition

[00:25:30] Sally: I think it’s, like, what you reflect out as an achiever because people then will reflect that back to you in their expectations. So- Mm-hmm … um, you know, thinking that because I’m an achiever, and however they label that in their head, right, that they think it’s easy for me to meet goals without structure, or that setting goals and reaching them comes naturally to me.

[00:25:54] It’s what I… It’s what motivates me, but it’s not necessarily my resting state, and I have to have- Yeah … supports around me to let that happen, and that determining my capacity is harder to measure. So I think a lot of times I’ve been stuck in situations where maybe leadership assumes that capacity is endless because I’m kinda giving them that feedback.

[00:26:13] Joel: I think that’s a fascinating observation. So there’s that old line that if you want something done, give it to a busy person. The achiever is probably the one who ends up f- running into that on a daily basis.

[00:26:25] Sally: In my current role, I, I came back to a company I had left because I experienced- Mm … a lot of burnout.

[00:26:31] And so when I met with, uh, the leader of the company, when she asked if I would come back, I shared my concern that I felt like I was the dumpster that everything would get thrown into . You know, if you need it done, give it to me and throw it in Sally’s bin. She said, “You gotta protect that, you know, ’cause that’s kind of on you too to be able to put up those healthy boundaries.”

[00:26:53] Joel: What would happen if you, like, dialed back? You know, like you’re s- talking about setting the standard. What if you dialed that back? What would that look like?

[00:27:01] Sally: I’ve totally played around with this, um, and it’s scary. At our company, we have, we’re using Entrepreneurial Operating System, EOS. Yeah. And so we, uh, you know, there’s this line in EOS to, “Leaders need to let go of the vine.”

[00:27:15] And so something that comes up for the achiever, right, is this idea of delegation and how important that is. And you have to have trust to do that. And so dialing it back for me means dialing up the trust in my team and investing time and making sure that other people understand my expectations.

[00:27:32] Joel: If you could step outside yourself for a minute and coach yourself on your own work style, what would you tell yourself?

[00:27:40] Sally: I would say That, you know, you really have to set up all kinds of parameters to be able to get the things that you want. Because without the precise focus of what it is that’s important, everything is going to be that shiny object that is worth pursuing, because it’s all interesting to you. Mm-hmm. And so you can’t do it all at once.

[00:28:06] So you’re gonna have to choose, and that’s gonna be confusing because more seems more- Mm-hmm … to, to that kind of, like, sophomoric mindset of like, oh, I… If I want to achieve, I have to achieve lots of things- Yeah … or do it to, like, the best degree. When in reality, if you actually want to gain momentum or you want to seek fulfillment or just reach a goal or a number, like, you have to dial it in.

[00:28:33] So dial it in, Sally, is what I would say. Like, figure out what’s important and just focus on that.

[00:28:40] Joel: Mm.

[00:28:40] Sally: I looked at the work assessment and thought, “Wow, I really am primed to fall into workaholicism.” Um, and I, you know, have experienced that before, and that that’s, like, the resting state, I think. You know, everything has the light side and the dark side, and that’s the dark side of achiever and juggler.

[00:29:01] Um, and I wrote, I wrote a note to myself: It’s scary when achiever and juggler is your unique value proposition.

[00:29:09] Joel: Mm.

[00:29:10] Sally: Because if that’s how I’m showing up to work and saying, I… like, the value you have in me is the fact that, like, you can run me into the ground because I, I am telling you I can and want to do it all, they’ll be like, “Cool.

[00:29:22] We will do that. We will do that all day long.” Yeah. And we’re not… I am not a machine. And so I think that that’s the… it reflected back to me that that’s the constant work, is not having all of my value come from, from those traits, that I am human, too, and that that’s how I show up to do my work, but that’s not all that I am, and I need to protect that.

[00:29:49] Mekel: My name is Mikelle Harris. Uh, I’m a licensed psychologist, and, uh, I specialize in grief and loss. Hmm. And so these days, a lot of the work that I do is, uh, speaking engagements, I’m an author, and then consulting with organizations around grief literacy.

[00:30:05] Marissa: Was there anything, as you started to read through the report, that felt surprising to you about being an ach- an Achiever?

[00:30:11] Mekel: There was something about adaptability-

[00:30:14] Marissa: Hmm …

[00:30:15] Mekel: that I thought, “Huh, that’s interesting.” It was saying that I really don’t like change. But I actually, I actually really do.

[00:30:22] Marissa: Okay.

[00:30:23] Mekel: Because I view it as, like, another sort of squirrel or rabbit to sort of chase- Yep, yep … and a goal to achieve. So that was sort of interesting to me.

[00:30:31] Of course, I’ll need to mill around a little bit more about that concept. Yeah. But that was a little bit surprising to me.

[00:30:37] Marissa: What felt eye-opening to you of like, gosh, yeah, this really resonates. This feels like totally me.

[00:30:42] Mekel: I actually went through here and highlighted this statement: High stamina for output is a valuable asset, but it becomes a liability when it prevents you from noticing the cost accumulating in the areas where effort isn’t the answer.

[00:30:57] Marissa: Mm.

[00:30:58] Mekel: And the reason this stood out to me is because, um, effort is just my DNA.

[00:31:04] Marissa: Yeah.

[00:31:05] Mekel: I will try to effort my way, but the area where I feel like I absolutely bomb is in relationships.

[00:31:11] Marissa: Okay.

[00:31:12] Mekel: Where of course you can’t effort on behalf of someone else.

[00:31:17] Marissa: Right.

[00:31:17] Mekel: And so that has created tension because what I find myself doing sometimes is over-performing-

[00:31:24] Marissa: Yeah

[00:31:24] Mekel: and overdoing to try to make up for whatever the, you know, tension may be.

[00:31:29] Marissa: Yeah.

[00:31:30] Mekel: And I’m just exhausted. And by the end of it I end up feeling resentful, and I don’t even wanna be around the person. But it’s really a lot to do with me trying to effort my way through. So, yeah.

[00:31:41] Marissa: You have a really unique position in knowing a lot about how people are wired, you know, what drives behavior.

[00:31:50] I can imagine that being a huge asset in a lot of ways. Mm-hmm. And also like a double-edged sword where at times if you’re not careful of turning that off, um, you can kind of default to that more work part of your- Oh,

[00:32:02] Mekel: yeah …

[00:32:02] Marissa: your personality.

[00:32:03] Mekel: Yeah. When I see it, it’s like I can’t unsee it.

[00:32:06] Marissa: Yeah.

[00:32:06] Mekel: And so it’s sort of reminding myself again that people are people, not projects.

[00:32:13] Marissa: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:13] Mekel: And especially in intimate relationships where you really are seeing a lot of things that that trajectory and that process that they’re on, that growth path- Mm … is their own, not for me to do anything with.

[00:32:25] Marissa: So do you feel like the biggest cost, so to speak, of your specific work style as being an achiever has been in the context of relationships?

[00:32:34] Or are there other areas that you see that shadow side showing up?

[00:32:39] Mekel: Yeah, 1000% with the relationships. And then I can say, you know, another thing that came up in my report was about rest and how my relationship with rest. I specialize in grief, but I’m also grieving.

[00:32:51] Marissa: Hmm.

[00:32:51] Mekel: And so rest, even though I fundamentally hate it, has been thrust upon me- Yeah

[00:32:56] because grieving is exhausting, but at the same time it’s been a gift because it forces me to slow down-

[00:33:02] Marissa: Yeah …

[00:33:02] Mekel: even when I have the best intentions to do. So, uh, that’s just been another area I need to be mindful of.

[00:33:08] Marissa: Have you had to talk yourself into the permission of rest even amidst- The grief that you’re personally experiencing?

[00:33:16] Mekel: Yeah. I think in the beginning when it was sort of forced on me, it literally was like driving 100 miles an hour and hitting a wall.

[00:33:24] Marissa: Right.

[00:33:24] Mekel: And I was just so not used to functioning in that way, not doing.

[00:33:28] Marissa: Yeah.

[00:33:28] Mekel: Now that I’m y- 12 years in and have had multiple losses, I kind of understand the benefit of it, but there are moments where I, I relapse.

[00:33:36] Marissa: Yeah.

[00:33:37] Mekel: And, uh, you know, I wanna get back into the doing.

[00:33:40] Marissa: What do you think that being an achiever has given you when you look back over your life?

[00:33:45] Mekel: I don’t think that I would’ve achieved what I have. Mm-hmm. When I think about, you know, being able to have the stamina to go through a doctoral program and gone to certifications, and even now as an entrepreneur, like having the stamina on the days where I’m like, “I can’t believe I’m doing this alone, and how am I gonna get through it?”

[00:34:02] Marissa: Right.

[00:34:02] Mekel: It’s that, the fuel that I think the achiever part of me gives me to say, “Look, you can do it, and here are all the options. And yes- Yeah … there may be 13 things, but that’s great. You, you’re the perfect person to do it.”

[00:34:14] Marissa: So when you think about everybody who’s listening and whether they’re an achiever or maybe they know an achiever, what kind of advice would you give to those people, being an achiever yourself?

[00:34:25] Mekel: Think about what your norm is. Like, for me, I’ll use the 13 backpack thing. Think about what it could look like if you just took off one, because the thing about it is an achiever is not gonna go from 100 to zero.

[00:34:37] Marissa: Right. It’s

[00:34:37] Mekel: just not gonna

[00:34:38] Marissa: happen. Right.

[00:34:39] Mekel: We’re probably not even gonna go to 70.

[00:34:41] Marissa: Yeah.

[00:34:41] Mekel: But what would it look like to take off one thing?

[00:34:44] So day to day, what I try to do is I’ll make my list. I have my planner- Yeah … literally sit here, and I’ll list out all the things I wanna do, and then back to the daily three. It’s like what are the main things? Even if there’s four or five other things that are unchecked, it’s okay, and that’s my version of lightening the load just a little bit.

[00:35:07] Joel: Okay, so you got the achiever, correct?

[00:35:10] Vanessa: That is. That’s correct.

[00:35:12] Joel: And you got the achiever with a secondary of the optimizer, right?

[00:35:16] Vanessa: That’s correct.

[00:35:17] Joel: Well, tell me about that.

[00:35:18] Vanessa: So I’ve long known that I’m achieve- an achiever. It’s how I get addicted to some games because it’s gotta get to the next level. Gotta get to the next level.

[00:35:27] It’s how I climb mountains. I gotta get to the top. I gotta get to the top. And so it, it just all made sense. It’s everything about how I, how I do my work and everything. Yeah.

[00:35:37] Joel: Was anything surprising in the report?

[00:35:40] Vanessa: No, there actually wasn’t. The way I approach all things is just to set a goal to go and get that goal.

[00:35:49] Some things that crossed my mind is can there be frustration if I don’t achieve the goal? And I’d say sometimes yes, but for the most part, I just look at that as just another goal to achieve, is to just to overcome the frustration and just- Right … carry on and continually go after things with optimism.

[00:36:10] It isn’t always… Well, it’s just for achieving the goal. It isn’t necessarily for, um, any kudos, any… In fact, the kudos don’t often help because I, I kind of just wanna, I wanna go and achieve the next thing.

[00:36:26] Joel: Are there negative sides to being an achiever?

[00:36:30] Vanessa: Yes, it can sometimes put a barrier and distance me from other people if I hold too hard to it.

[00:36:36] I’ve learned how to live better, uh, with others, with my interior disposition. But yes, it, it can, ’cause not, not everybody’s that way. An example, a very real example is my mother is not anything like me. And so when I plan a trip with her, she, her, one of the first things she says is, “Remember, whatever you would plan for you, do only half because it’s too much for me.

[00:37:04] I don’t want you to run my butt off.”

[00:37:07] Joel: Yeah. What does it look like to be an achiever with only 168 hours in a week?

[00:37:14] Vanessa: So I think for the last 30 years, I’ve probably run on about six hours of sleep because there’s, uh, just too many things to get done. And I’m grateful, uh, to my maker for allowing me to have that energy level because it goes against what others might say.

[00:37:32] I don’t have any health consequences. In fact, if I sleep too much, I’d say my health consequence is that I feel even groggier if I’ve slept too much. But there are times when I just have some needful, uh, rest. But my to-do list is always much bigger than I can achieve in any day. Some meaningful phrases from other people are, you know, those…

[00:37:54] the big audacious goals and that type of thing. That’s kinda how I, I look at life, and I… Some of my common sayings, common phrases would be, “Sleep is highly overrated. There’s too many things to get done. Occasionally I need to rest my body, but my mind can just keep active. It’s okay,” because it’s constantly planning ahead.

[00:38:15] Uh, and I, and as I… Uh, another one is, “I live the dream.” I don’t dream dreams, I just, I, I just live the dream that’s there before me to, to go and, and do that.

[00:38:26] Joel: Is there any cost to that relentless pursuit?

[00:38:30] Vanessa: The cost is sometimes, uh, relationships with other people if I haven’t slowed down to spend some time with them.

[00:38:37] Uh, and I have made conscious effort to do that in the last decade of my life to make that an actual goal, to go out- Yeah … and pursue the coffee with a friend, the dinner with a friend, invite people over on Sundays. I don’t have family. I, I have my parents, and I’m an only child. And so I’d say this last decade, I’ve been spending more time putting people into my schedule to get to know them and to make that an achievable goal as opposed to- Mm-hmm

[00:39:11] achievements of a career and helping my clients. I’ve always been people-orientated, uh, been more work-orientated in my people focus though with 400 clients and that. Now it’s pursuing the, the more meaningful interpersonal relationships with others.

[00:39:29] Joel: Any final thoughts on having done the assessment and what it meant for you?

[00:39:33] Vanessa: It was an affirmation that this is me, that I am this. And it was also Helpful to see some of the suggestions about actually doing take, you know, do take some time for myself. Uh- Mm-hmm … keep using that top three priority setter. I’ve been struggling. Uh, I’ve used the Full Focus Planner for quite a long time.

[00:39:56] I think it’s almost a decade. But I needed the rem- Oh, wow. Yeah, I’ve needed the reminder on the top three. I kind of hit a wall a year and a half ago, and I’d write stuff down and wasn’t able to get through it, and that can be frustrating for a person like me that’s an achiever style and not getting- Right

[00:40:16] the stuff done. And so staying focused on those top three and being part of this coaching community has been exactly what I needed at exactly the right time. I have a firm faith in my believer and, uh, in my a- and belief in my God, and I know that He’s put me in touch with the right people at the right time in my life right now.

[00:40:45] Marissa: I love hearing from all of these different achievers. I think it really helps bring color into this work style. And we talked about this a little bit last week, but even though, you know, these people are all achievers, you can hear how there’s a little bit of nuance in each of their experiences. But there’s a consistent pattern in how they tend to show up, both in work and their life.

[00:41:10] And so hopefully, if you’re listening to this and you’re an achiever, you’re feeling really seen right now. You’re feeling validated in your experience as an achiever. And if you aren’t an achiever, but you’re listening to this, hopefully you’ve been able to start identifying the people that you work, uh, with, the people that are in your personal life, and understanding what their work styles are so you can really cater to them in a better way and have better collaboration between the two of you.

[00:41:38] Joel: Yeah, and make sure you share this episode with any achievers you know, because undoubtedly you know many.

[00:41:43] Marissa: Yes.

[00:41:44] Joel: And they are bringing great things into your life, and sometimes a little friction, and this episode, I think, can help elucidate that for you, and them.

[00:41:56] Marissa: Well, Joel, let’s talk about achievers and kind of our final thought of why are priorities important specifically for this work style?

[00:42:06] Joel: We defined this last week when we talked about the giver. We’ll use the same definition here. A priority is what’s yours to do that drives results and that matters right now. When a achiever is really clear on especially the drives results, they can maximize really th- their strength because if you look at an achiever’s to-do list where sometimes the doing of the task becomes more important than the value of the task, the ROI doesn’t matter as much as the check mark.

[00:42:40] Marissa: Right.

[00:42:41] Joel: That’s a setup for burnout, and so ultimately what you wanna do is narrow down the activity you’re doing to things that really matter right now, they are high ROI, and they’re uniquely yours to do. And if you’re able to do that, work in your priorities, then you can feel not only the satisfaction of having done a lot, that drive is being rewarded by the work that you’ve accomplished, but you’re actually able to turn it off when you need to because other activity that you might fill that time with is lower ROI.

[00:43:12] It doesn’t matter as much.

[00:43:13] Marissa: Well, and I think that you know that, yeah, where you’re spending your time, where you’re spending your energy, it matters. You’re really investing that into a life that’s worth living- Right … and not just a finished to-do list. So we’ll leave you there. All of you achievers, we love you, we’re grateful for you.

[00:43:33] You’re incredible, and it’s okay to switch those

[00:43:41] Joel: gears like we talked about. It’s also okay to go take this assessment for yourself and see, am I, in fact, an achiever?

[00:43:44] Marissa: It’s free.

[00:43:45] Joel: Go do it right now. It’s free. Just go to fullfocus.co/ws and take the assessment. If you’re an achiever, it will pop right up after you do it. If you’re not, it’ll pop up with something else, and that may be just as enlightening, especially since we’re gonna be coming back and talking about more of these work styles in the coming weeks.

[00:44:10] Marissa: Well, thanks for joining us on Focus on This

[00:44:13] Joel: This is the most productive podcast on the internet. Share it with your friends and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen or at focusonthispodcast.com.

[00:44:24] Marissa: And we’re gonna be here next week, where we’re gonna talk about our next work style type and mine, the juggler.

[00:44:31] Joel: The juggler. Until then… Stay

[00:44:35] Marissa: focused Stay focused